If you think you can’t bring all of you to the work you do, you’ll love this lively conversation with Danielle Hughes, originator of The Personality Brand, about how to bring what “lights you up” to work with you. And watch for our new bundle, “Profit from Your Personality: The ultimate toolkit for attracting and landing more clients you’ll love working with!"
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So listen here (or below) and scroll down to read the transcript.
Read the full transcript of Marketing Mentor Podcast Episode #469 with Danielle Hughes of The Personality Brand
ilise benun
Hi there. This is ilise benun, your Marketing Mentor. And this is the podcast for you if, and only if, you are ready to leave the feast or famine syndrome behind, and I mean for good.
If you think you can't, for whatever reason, bring all of you to the work you do, this episode is for you. I had another lively conversation with Danielle Hughes, who is the originator of the Personality Brand, through which she teaches anyone and everyone, and that means you too, how to bring more of yourself to your work, no matter what you do.
A lot of it has to do with identifying what lights you up and then not leaving that out. For Danielle, what lights her up is helping others bring out what lights them up. So if that sounds like something you need, watch for a new ‘bundle of bundles’ we're going to be offering to help you. It's called “Profit From Your Personality.” But for now, listen and learn.
Hello, Danielle. Welcome back to the podcast.
Danielle Hughes
Thank you, ilise. I feel like, you know how on SNL, when they are on SNL five times, they get a jacket?
ilise benun
That's right.
Danielle Hughes
I feel like I'm only a couple away from getting my jacket, so I will expect it in the mail.
(Laughter)
ilise benun
All right, so I gotta look into some jackets, although I did show you, in the small group, my new Lululemon jacket, so maybe you'll get one of those.
Danielle Hughes
I would never, never turn down Lulu-anything. All right, everyone here heard that, everyone here heard that. I'm a medium, my favorite colors are... no, I'm just kidding.
ilise benun
We'll see.
Danielle Hughes
I'm kidding.
ilise benun
All right, so for those who haven't heard the previous podcast and don't know who you are, if there is anyone out there, please introduce yourself. Give us your elevator pitch and tell us a little bit about what you're doing now, and then we'll look back and see how you got here.
Danielle Hughes
So I am Danielle Hughes. I am the chief personality officer of More Than Words Marketing, which started out as a copywriting and branding consultancy agency. And now, what I do is I help individuals, and organizations, and individuals inside those organizations, to put more of themselves into their bios and messages so that they can feel more confident and more comfortable expressing what they're good at, and create those very necessary connections that are going to help them elevate and amplify themselves within the workplace.
ilise benun
Mm-hmm. And the thing that's been interesting to witness, your process and your progress and your growth is ... I think the underlying idea for me is always that you were listening, and are listening, to the market. You put a bunch of things out there and the market responded or didn't, and you've been following that.
So maybe with that frame, tell us a little bit about how you went from, at the beginning, you called yourself “a freelancer,” but then you became “a business owner,” and I'd love for you to talk a little bit about that transition, as well.
Danielle Hughes
Yeah, I think Seth Godin talks a lot about ... he goes on rants about the term “freelancer.”
But to me, I think when I was a freelance copywriter, it felt like I was not in the driver's seat. I feel like, for me, when I was a freelancer, other people got to control my career and that was not what I wanted.
And when I switched over to thinking about myself as a business owner—and I do have a company—but I think when I switched my mindset to being a business owner, it allowed me to take control of where I wanted to go, what I wanted to do, and who I wanted to do it for.
ilise benun
And again, the thing that's interesting to me about that, I'll just underscore that it was a decision you made and a shift you made in your mindset. And that's what changed from freelancer to business owner, because certainly a freelancer could be also in the driver's seat if you have the right mindset. But you very intentionally made that shift.
Would you say it was connected to: "and that's when I incorporated?" Or was there some logistical or tactical thing that changed there, too?
Danielle Hughes
So I think what happened was I woke up one day and felt like my pipeline was drying up. And to be fair, I had not marketed myself. I had done zero anything. My brand was generic. My website was generic. I was just Danielle Z. Hughes Copywriting. And I, like many people who go freelance, was very fortunate that I'd had clients from previous businesses and colleagues that I'd worked with that were sending me work. And it was very steady, until it wasn't.
ilise benun
Right, I love that.
Danielle Hughes
Always, always. And then I think that's when I found you. And I was like, "Feast or famine? Yeah, that's exactly what's happening. Except it's way more famine. And it's more like famine with some scraps as opposed to feasting."
And so I realized that I needed to do something, and I didn't necessarily have an idea, a plan. It's not like I woke up one day and cultivated Personality Brand and figured I would make my entire business about this idea that didn't exist. I just knew that if I didn't create a business, if I didn't think more strategically about how I wanted to present myself, I was not going to be able to sustain my business.
ilise benun
And so, yeah, talk about Personality Brand and how that came to be.
Danielle Hughes
It's funny. Obviously, I owe almost all of it to you because when I hired you, and we were working on my new website and my company and I was writing the website content, you kept pushing me to put more of me into my language. And you kept telling me, "Why are you shying away? You're so funny. You're so raw. You're so direct. You need to put that out there."
And so, I always tell people, I was my first client, because even I was super hesitant because I grew up in a world, like most of us, where “professional” was a certain thing and “professional” meant traditional and conservative, and I didn't think that I could be myself. And then in the process of you forcing me to write a newsletter ...
(Laughter)
ilise benun
I remember it well.
Danielle Hughes
And I think I also delayed because I didn't want it to just be a marketing newsletter because I thought nobody needs that. I needed it to be a distinct point of view. And at the time, I didn't know what that was going to be.
And I think I just started writing them. And I'm sure if I go back, my first couple, or more than a couple, were not so great. And one of those original ones was about this idea of Personality Brand.
And it wasn't even—you would appreciate this, ilise—a fully fleshed out idea. It was something that just occurred to me, that “personal” was private, and why would we have a personal brand, but our personality is who we are.
And I don't know if I heard this somewhere, but it just was a kernel in my brain that needed to get out. And it was very offhanded. It was in a newsletter... .
And then I think I referenced it a few weeks later and linked back to that post. And then I might have referenced it again. And I think at this point, people had probably started saying, "Oh, that's so interesting," or responding or, "I like this." Then I was like, "Okay."
To your point, it is very much driven by my audience and what feedback I was getting. But also how I felt. Every time I talked more personally for myself, and I put more of myself into my message, it just seemed to strike way more chords with people than when it was a more standard, ‘Five ways to do blah, blah, blah,’—which I've never done—but for example, a more generic sort of message.
ilise benun
What I love also about this is, as you said, it's not like it came out fully formed, this idea. It was just an idea you had. You put it out there. And then, as the market responded to it, and as you felt stronger about it and the way you were integrating your own personality, it grew. Right? The idea just keeps growing. That's so beautiful.
Danielle Hughes
It's still growing. It's like one of those dinosaurs that they used to put in the water—and they're like, [sound of rapid growth].
ilise benun
Yeah.
Danielle Hughes
It's just been crazy. And I look back and I think, "I don't even know how I got to where I am today." And I kind of think that's the beautiful thing because there's no way I could have designed this, orchestrated it; it's just been natural.
And what I like about it is the fact that I didn't wait for perfection, because perfection is the enemy of good. I was just like: I'm going to put this out there.
And then I just kept putting it out there a little more, a little more. And of course, the more you do something, the more your own mind gets to process it, and the more you get to workshop it through language, through talking, through offerings.
And I think it also, because it was constantly gestating or germinating in my brain, it allowed me to be more receptive to when I was reading other books or listening to podcasts, I would hear things that would then reinforce, or have me say, "Oh, I could try that with this,” or “this is an option for me."
Whereas I think previously, when it was just ‘I'm a copywriter,’ I felt very boxed in, because I didn't feel ... I think that this has given me a huge expanse, which is the most amazing thing, is that I can literally take this and do anything with it because everything is about being you and your personality. There isn't anything where this can't touch.
ilise benun
That's true. And so, what is it like, because I know you wanted to be a writer. Right? That was what your dream. Talk about what is it like when the thing you thought you really wanted, maybe you don't feel that way anymore?
Danielle Hughes
Yeah, I think I will always be a writer, but what's interesting to me in this evolution is my desire to write less for, let's say my corporate clients—who, I love you, please don't go anywhere right now.
(Laughter)
But what I mean is, I have discovered my voice, and this idea that I can talk about what I do and help people do it by verbally, as opposed to writing. And something has lit up inside me around coaching, around teaching, around talking about Personality Brand. And I have realized: why wouldn't I want to do this? I could reach so many more people.
Like me, writing someone's content, is that one person. But if I can speak to a room and do a workshop in front of 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 people, all of those people are impacted, and they all can take what they've learned and make their own way in the world.
And it's a very new thing. I did not set out to be a speaker, trainer, any of these things. Again, this is all just people coming to me and saying, "Would you do this? Would you do that? Do you offer this?” And in typical ilise fashion, "Yes. Yes. Yes.” Even though, no idea; we're going to make it up as we go along.
(Laughter)
ilise benun
And actually, so I am trying to channel the listeners now and imagining that they're hearing you and they understand this idea, perhaps, of listening to the market ... although most people don't really know, well, what do you mean by ‘listen to the market?’ So we could talk a little bit about that.
But I also think, "Oh, but that's Danielle. Danielle is fearless. Danielle is big and bold. I couldn't do that."
So just talk a little bit about that. Is it because of who you are that this has happened? Or are there other ways people can apply—and I'm sure this is part of what you teach—how do you apply your own personality to the vision?
Danielle Hughes
I would a hundred percent say that four years ago, I was not this bold, confident ... in business. With my friends, in my personal life, I've always been a very big personality. But I was very hesitant in business. And I think it stems from: I wasn't clear. And one of the things that I do say is that when you get clear on who you are, and who you serve, and what you do, that's how you get the confidence.
So until I got clear on those things, I wasn't super confident or I was pretending to be. Or I might say “yes” to something and then freak out behind the scenes. So this has been a very gradual process. And it's not like I still am the most ... like, I don't know whenever you're finished. I don't think we ever finish baking. It's not like well, you wake up one day and you're like, "I am the most confident and the most self-assured person ever in the world."
Every day is getting better at something, because the more you do something, the more you get better at it. And part of the beauty of Personality Brand, which I will say till the cows come home, is that you get to determine what you put into your message and what you don't. So you are in full control. So as much of you as you want to include, great. As little as you, great. But it has to be something.
There has to be that one thing that is going to give people something to connect to. And I don't care what industry you're in. I have worked with people across every possible "conservative, traditional industry.” Even a financial planner can put a little something; even a lawyer. It does not matter.
ilise benun
And give us some examples, because I know you've got a bunch.
Danielle Hughes
Oh my goodness. To me, if you have your own business, and for whatever reason you're in a very conservative industry, you could put a little blurb on the About page.
One of my earlier clients is a financial planner. And we have a little something in his About page that says, "On his first date with his wife, he asked her how she was saving for retirement and what her 401k looked like." Then he has a little joke that you could say, "I've always been serious by my financial planning."
For him, that's where he's going to go. That's it. We're not going to get anything else. I think he might mention that he likes to do a little woodworking or something, but that's the extent of it.
So it's just finding those things that you can add to connect with your audience. And I always say that should be a hobby or a passion. So I have clients who talk about bird watching. I have clients who talk about being amateur poker players. A recent client is a connoisseur of vinyl, meaning she collects vintage records.
Any of these things can be something. And all of these people tell me that those are the number one things that people talk about when they reach out to them. That's the thing. No one is going to reach out... . Yes, they're reaching out to you professionally. But the idea is: wouldn't it be great if you could just start a conversation about something personal and then get into the business stuff?
ilise benun
Right. Connect first, basically.
Danielle Hughes
Exactly.
ilise benun
Yeah. And I do think people long for connection.
Danielle Hughes
More than ever. And I'm starting to hear this idea everywhere. So I heard an interview with Lizzo a couple months ago where she was saying, “when we were growing up,”—and she's way younger than I am—but she was saying, "fitting in ...you couldn't be different. Difference was death. You had to fit in."
She's like, "Now, you want to be different, because fitting in is death."
We're in a world where people are being heralded and rewarded for their differences, and that is a beautiful, beautiful place to live. And I just want more people to realize that.
ilise benun
But do people know, themselves, what's different about them? Or do we need someone from the outside to tell us or help us see it?
Danielle Hughes
I think a lot of times it's permission. I think people know and they need someone to give them the permission to put it out there. Or they need someone to show them how to do that—where does it belong, what's the best way to talk about it?
And some people are so overflowing with so many things that they're like, "Well, I like this, and I like this, and I like this, and I like this." And I'm like, "Great, let's start with a couple. Let’s put a couple things out there." I have yet to meet anyone who says, "No, I'm not going to talk about anything about my life." We all have something that is a connection point.
ilise benun
I'm reminded of Janice Carter, who is a designer that we both know, and at the bottom of her LinkedIn profile, she has a little paragraph about how much she loves bunnies, and how she couldn't make a living drawing bunnies, so she became a graphic designer. But it's down at the bottom because it's only for the people who keep reading, basically ...
Danielle Hughes
Correct.
ilise benun
We don't necessarily want to lead with it, but we want to lead people there, and then they've earned it almost, I feel like. If you've read all the way this far, then all right, here's a little something personal.
Danielle Hughes
Absolutely. And so I have a social post that's going up tomorrow. I did a presentation a couple weeks ago, and I got an email from a woman that attended—and this is one of my greatest joys in life is when people tell me this—but she said that my presentation was so valuable. She said, "It makes me excited to know that it's more than okay to bring my full personality to work. Partly as a result of listening to your presentation, I just had the most fun work-related Zoom meeting of my life with a potential client. I felt relaxed and able to be myself." She just wrote and thanked me for the laughs and said she thought it would be super fun to work with me.
ilise benun
Nice.
Danielle Hughes
That to me is ... people just want to be people. And this idea that it's so much more than just what your hobby is, or infusing personality in your bio. It's how does that change your entire body language and your demeanor, so that you can go into a situation so relaxed and so comfortable and get to know someone on a human level? And then you've built that trust and that foundation, and then you can get into the work stuff.
And, of course, they want to work with you. You're enjoyable. You are lovely. You have connected. Right? It's so much about what is it going to be like to work with us and what is this client relationship going to be? And that's what we're trying to put out in the world, is how much is that going to be enjoyable for us?
ilise benun
For some reason, I'm thinking about what you said about permission, that people want permission. And it's reminding me of a shift I made gradually, a while back, from being the person I thought everyone else wanted me to be versus, "Okay, no more. I can't do that anymore. I need to give myself permission to be who I am.” And then put that out in the world.
And I wonder if that's also one of the obstacles ... is you can't put it out there unless and until you've decided, "I need to be me."
Danielle Hughes
Yeah. I would agree with that. I think hopefully people don't have to wait to some breaking point for that to happen. But it is a lot of fear, because we're all human. We all want to be liked. We all fear rejection. And so it's always like, "Well, what if I put myself out there and someone doesn't like me?"
And what if you do and more people like you? Why is it always the negative? What if it's the complete opposite—that you're actually preventing people from connecting with you because you haven't put anything out there, and the minute you do, your world opens up. Why can't we focus on that, instead?
ilise benun
Yes. And I love when you say, “we need to repel certain people because they're not a good fit, so that we can attract the right people.”
Danielle Hughes
Exactly. And the more you put yourself out there, the more like attracts like. You want people to respond to your message. And the ones that don't, they're just not going to reach out. And that's great because then you don't have to waste your time.
ilise benun
Exactly, or theirs.
Danielle Hughes
Or theirs. Correct.
ilise benun
So let's segue now to “Profit From Your Personality,” which is a bundle that we are putting together with our friend Lisa Mullis. And we're going to be talking about this and sharing about this and emailing about this, but I just wanted to plant the seed and let people know that this is coming. And I'll say the whole title and maybe you can share a little bit about what's in it.
Danielle Hughes
Sure.
ilise benun
So it's called “Profit From Your Personality, The Ultimate Toolkit For Attracting and Landing More Clients You'll Love Working With.”
Danielle Hughes
Isn't that the dream? Oh my God, this is so amazing. Yeah, so it is three ‘bundles of goodness,’ as you will. It is your “Proposal Oreo Strategy” in an ebook that helps people understand how to write proposals that win them the job.
ilise benun
An illustrated ebook.
Danielle Hughes
Oh, sorry. Illustrated. With delicious Oreo cookie pictures ...
ilise benun
Exactly.
Danielle Hughes
...all over the thing. I feel like at some point you might be getting a cease and desist from Oreo, but The Hydrox Strategy just doesn't seem to have the same cache.
ilise benun
That's right.
Danielle Hughes
And then it is my “Personality Light” bundle, which includes some videos, and three of my most popular worksheets including my “About Me Madlibs,” which is going to get you clear on who you are, and then infusing that personality into your bio and then into your message.
And then it's Lisa Mullis' “Copy Camp for Headlines,” which is going to help you create those amazing headlines for your website or your emails or any of your communication, that are going to really resonate with your audience.
ilise benun
So what I like about this ‘bundle of bundles,’ basically, is that it starts with the “Personality Brand,” and you learn all about how to bring your personality into your work. Then Lisa's “Copy Camper Headlines,” especially, and her “Brand Star Power Blueprint”—those are going to help you get the messaging, bring your personality into the messaging. And then my illustrated “Proposal Oreo Strategy” recipe book is going to help you use your personality to land those proposals and those clients that you want. So we've tried to put the three things together that you need to have a successful business and attract and land more clients you'll love working with.
Danielle Hughes
There you go. I love it. Yeah. And it's amazing how seamlessly they all work together. They're all specific components that are needed. And even in the right order, ideally. Building your brand, then infusing it in the right places, and then using that to land clients. And that's, of course, the point.
ilise benun
Well, I can't wait to see. We're almost ready with it. So watch your email, and if you aren't signed up for any of our email newsletters, then we'll put some links in the show notes in order to do that.
And Danielle, I always like to give listeners a baby step that they can focus on, so let's think of a baby step toward Personality Brand. Is there an exercise that you ask people to start with, or something they can do that's easy and that they won't get in their own way about?
Danielle Hughes
The easiest thing to me is: what is something that you love to do, that lights you up, that you could talk about and talk to a perfect stranger about all day long? A hobby, a passion, et cetera. And go put that little blurb somewhere in your LinkedIn profile, your LinkedIn headline, your website. Just add it. Add it somewhere and see what happens.
ilise benun
I love that. That's listening to the market. See. What. Happens.
Danielle Hughes
Yes. And I'm sure that people will start to be like, "Oh my God, I didn't know that you loved: whatever."
I even did a podcast a couple weeks ago and we're in the conversation and I started talking about things. And the host, who I know, was like, "My God, I didn't know any of this about you." And we don't know so much about people, and we're so interested in people, so let people be interested in you.
ilise benun
Love it. All right. So tell the people where they can find more about you.
Danielle Hughes
The people can find me at morethanwordscopy.com. You can follow me on Instagram, Danielle Z. Hughes, like Zebra. And of course, you can find me on LinkedIn, also Danielle Hughes. And as my mentor says, the best place to stay in touch with me is to sign up for my newsletter, which is on my website, and that goes out every other Friday.
ilise benun
Awesome. And it's become your best marketing tool, it seems.
Danielle Hughes
100% has. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And it's my favorite thing to work on, even though it's Thursday night at 4:30 and it has to go out tomorrow morning and it's still not done.
ilise benun
But you like working.
Danielle Hughes
I love it so much. I don't even write it until last minute.
ilise benun
Awesome. Well, I can't wait to see what comes in my inbox tomorrow morning. All right. Thank you, Danielle, for sharing everything that you've learned, and I will see you soon.
Danielle Hughes
Thank you so much. Bye everyone.
ilise benun
We'll see about that SNL jacket, but if this conversation inspires you, here's the baby step Danielle suggests:
Write down what lights you up. The thing you could talk to a perfect stranger about all day long. Then add it somewhere on your LinkedIn profile, even at the bottom, or on your website—not necessarily on the homepage, and see what happens.
And if that gets you going, I have a feeling you're going to want to take advantage of our new bundle of bundles, “Profit From Your Personality, The Ultimate Toolkit For Attracting and Landing More Clients You'll Love Working With.” It's a bundle of things from me, Danielle and Lisa Mullis. So, sign up for my Quick Tips at marketing-mentortips.com, and you'll hear all about it as soon as it's ready, which is soon. See you next time.